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Viva-Almeria :: View topic - Swimming pool heatpumps
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Swimming pool heatpumps

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jbsupplies
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Swimming pool heatpumps Reply with quote

Now the weather has turned towards to cooler side and swimming pools are now only used by the most brave amongst us several people are looking at different methods to heat their pools.

It has come to my attention that there are some new models available manufactured in China and being made available locally.

I have no technical specification for these but I will point out a few things the buyer should be aware of when choosing a heatpump:

1. Heatpumps although efficient require to initially operate for several hours and therefore need a larger supply cable than that to the pool filtration pump the cable needs to be between 4mm & 6mm x 3 core.
2. The installation should have a supply isolation switch locally to the heatpump and a 1m copper Earth stake should be local to the heatpump.

3. The most efficient heatpump has a high COP rating so check this in the specification greater than 5 COP.

4. For Spain it is reccommended that the unit has a 'Soft Start' system to enable automatic operation without tripping the electrical supply.

5. The unit should be fully automatic to sample the temperature of the pool and switch on and off to maintain this temperature.

6. The heat exchanger needs to be made from Titanium to withstand the pool chemicals and have a 15 year guarantee.

7. Lastly check what price you are paying for a unit manufactured in China.

http://www.watermaid-europe.com/Heatpumps.html

Any questions or queries please ask.

Regards,
Dave

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Last edited by jbsupplies on Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total
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Beachbum2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been asked by other owners at our complex (20 apartments) to research heating for our pool. The pool is only 9000gallons so is rather small. At present without any heating it has very limited use except for the brave, foolhardy or not of this world. Have been advised to go for a heat pump rather than solar. Anybody with experience with this method would be appreciated as would recommended suppliers/installers.
apartments are in Palomares.
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lmjohn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beachbum2008 wrote:
I have been asked by other owners at our complex (20 apartments) to research heating for our pool. The pool is only 9000gallons so is rather small. At present without any heating it has very limited use except for the brave, foolhardy or not of this world. Have been advised to go for a heat pump rather than solar. Anybody with experience with this method would be appreciated as would recommended suppliers/installers.
apartments are in Palomares.


Did you read the post above you?? icon_smile.gif
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Jamesbowen
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I have had experiences with a heat pump having had one installed since late last year.

Heat Pumps offer more of an assured temperature than Solar Heating. You cannot predict when the sun will shine, so if you want your pool heated for a specific period, then Solar cannot guarantee a heated pool.

Additionally, the recommended area of panels is half the pool area, so a 10mt x 5mt pool would require 25 sq mts of solar panels. That is a lot of space and it has to be in the correct position and at the correct angle. Obviously by increasing the area of panels you increase the heating possibilities of the pool. (Plus huge cost and area increases to!!)

Solar is a lot more expensive to install than a Heat Pump but of course the running cost is very low and environmentally better.(If you care)

So, I decided on a heat pump, it was installed efficiently and takes up very little space. It sits neatly alongside the Pump/Filtration Unit and is not noisy.

Apart from an initial hiccup when it was discovered that the pump had a gas leak, it has worked really well. Currently the pool is 33 degrees centigrade, it may lose 1 or 2 degrees overnight if it is cold or if it rains hard. But that loss is nearly always picked up during the following day. If it is really cold then it may take a day or so to regain lost heat.

The hottest we have had the pool was 36 degrees, but that was too hot to swim, so we aim for an average of 32 degrees.

Look closely at any advertising figures quoted, as many rave on about efficiencies, costs and temperature gains. These are usually based on ambient temperatures of 15 degrees. That is not always available during the winter months. At night most of the Heat Pumps shut down at temps below +5 degrees, so night meters are of no use at all.

The essentials I have found are to have a good quality bubble cover, this helps retain heat and the solar effect helps to warm the water on a sunny day. Be careful about the size of the pump, there can be a problem with the electricity supplies in Spain, so an oversized pump may cause you problems with tripping out the house supply.

I have no detail on running cost, but remember that the initial start up when you go from say 16 degrees to say 30 degrees, will cost. Do not just look at the running cost, the start up can add a lot to the cost.

When you look at the cost of a pool, it seems silly to only use it for 5/6 months of the year. Heating the pool means we can use it all year round.

Jim
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Beachcomber
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could I ask what size your pool is?

Friends had a Calorex heat pump installed in a 10x6m pool. They found that in order to raise the pool temperature by any significant amount they had to run it for 24 hours per day at a cost of nearly one euro per hour and, even then they were only able to extend their swimming season by a few weeks.

They also found that trying to boil a kettle whilst the pump was running caused their maximum rated ICP to trip.

They have now abandoned it as an expensive and inefficient white elephant.
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jbsupplies
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pool heating can vary quite a lot, construction of the pool, pool cover, wind or sheltered from wind, amount of sun etc.

We have found that our customers have greatly extended their pool season significantly and would go on to say that it is viable for up to 10 months/ year.

Such comments have been made publicly that "it has been the best investment"
When you consider that a pool will cost from 14,000 upwards and to only get 3~4 months use from it if you can extend it by 7~10 months then you are getting more use from that pool outlay.

Careful use will be more economical:

When the summer starts to cool turn the heatpump on to maintain that temperature.
Once it has cooled to 16 deg. the ground around the pool also cools and will absorb the heat so maintaining it will reduce that initial start-up long running scenario.

If you need to leave it for a couple of weeks just turn the heatpump down a few degrees to perhaps 20 then it will get back up when you return much quicker.

As was mentioned the Spanish electricity supply needs to be checked you really need to upgrade to a 5.75kw supply or above depending on what size pool and heatpump you would require.

Next ensure the heatpump you buy has 'Soft Start' this reduces the initial surge when the heatpump starts up and reduces/prevents the house supply tripping - additional 'Soft Start' unit can be installed for particularly bad areas.

Need any advice drop me an email
Regards,
Dave

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steve_e14
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don´t know if this is a practical solution for everyone but! We have built a waterfall that flows into the pool, the rocks heat up and that in turn heats up the water coupled with the slow(ish) flow of water gives the sun an opportunity to heat the water. Works for us! Anybody wanting to see it in operation just send me a message.
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Jamesbowen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

To answer your question, my pool is a 10mt x 5mt kidney shaped pool. The depth is fairly constant, from 1.4mts to 1.7mts.

There are so many individual factors that influence running costs, that I suspect some of the claims made by the advertisers of heat pumps, their "catch all" approach can be misleading.

A pool near the coast, will be easier to heat than say a pool halfway up a mountain, especially in winter when any heating is a challenge. A garden that has a wall or thick shrubs will protect a pool from cold winds and heat loss, compared to one that is exposed. How deep is the pool, is it partly out of the ground and what are the heat expectations of the pool owners.

However, it is amazing at how hot the sun can get even in winter, albeit for a short day. It is on sunny days like that the pool temperature starts to climb quickly and the heat pump efficiency soars.

On the electricity supply, I currently have the pool heater, a spa, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, water heater, 5 a/c units, oven, hob and all the usual things like toaster, microwave,kettle,iron and hair dryer.

Initially I had pop outs with my 25 amp breaker, but since I installed a 40 amp breaker I have not had any trouble. True I have to use a bit of management in the winter evenings as it is not possible to have it all on at once, but so far it has worked OK.

Personally, having invested a goodly sum in my pool, I feel that to use it only half the year, is a waste of money.

I agree with Dave, that there will be periods when trying to heat the pool is a non starter, so leave it ticking over until the cold snap goes and then you will be amazed at fast it gains temperature.

I had the pump installed late last year so I had to start with a pool at 16 degrees, that was quite a task for the pump to get to a usable temperature and no doubt cost a few euros too. However the game plan for next year is to switch the pump on as the summer fades and the pool temp starts to dip. Then all I will be doing is topping up.

For me the heat pump and the pool go together, I am thrilled with the result.

Jim
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Beachbum2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re Pool Heat pumps. Thanks for all the replies on the subject, they give both good and bad points, so I can now present a balanced view. Many thanks
David
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alma
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Heat Pumps Reply with quote

I have found the comments most helpful, thanks.
Ho much would I expect to pay for a heat pump installed for an 8x4 pool do you have a recommendation of a make.

I am also looking at Solar power however what I was considering was not using the conventional solar heating for a pool i.e. heating the water directly but using the solar power to create electricity to run a heat pump and utilising the addiotion power to offset the costs of the domestic electric bill. Is this a feasible option or is a bit "pie in the sky".
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SurfnBoard
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Water heating Reply with quote

These are great!!

Titanium Heat exchanger & Soft Start plus digital temp set/reading.

Cost you £100 to get it over from the UK!



Model 1211-N Model 1212-N Model 1213-N
Competition 15kw Titanium
£2,075


http://www.jacksons-camping.co.uk/swimming/heat-pumps.htm


I had a very large heated Koi Carp facility in the Uk and used an American gas fired Spa heater 55,000 BTU's. The water used to pass directly through the Titanium water chamber. I had it linked to a Digi Stat set at 20deg C. The boiler only used to kick in every so often to stop the water chilling. It's heating the water up that costs the money, not maintaining it! If you let the summer temperatures heat the water and then use your heater to prevent cooling then you will find it much more economicle.
The Koi Carp grew to massive sizes in the warm water!


I wonder if anyone has ever considered using heat mat (the type used under tiled floors) to line the pool in the screeding to heat the pool! The power they use is the same as a 60 watt light builb?

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jbsupplies
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the time you have bought it from the UK paid to have it installed and of course your warranty is in the UK you would have a similarly priced unit locally installed with full warranty.

You need to ensure you know the differences that are between the many units available - like all products.

The heat mats sound a good idea but there is a rule of how many units of energy it takes to raise the temperature of water by 1 degree so you would need quite a lot of 60w mats to maintain 75,000 litres of water at 30deg.C.

Regards,
Dave

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alma
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Heat Pump Reply with quote

Hi
Has anyone installed a Calyenty heat pump. It is on e-bay (UK) at £1495 with free delivery to Spain, although it appears that that is where the distributor is.
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jbsupplies
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alma,
Did you get your Calyenty heat pump?
The season for heating the pool is upon us again, pools are getting down to the low 20's next month they will drop even further.
Heating a pool generally costs between 1~3 Euros maintaining it between 25~30°C or mor as some of our customes see 30°C as a minimum.

You need to put a good cover on to save cash and keep the heat in, we reccommend Daisy pool covers and rollers for their quality and price:

http://www.watermaid-europe.com/Pool_Covers.html

How does a heatpump work:
http://www.watermaid-europe.com/Heatpumps.html#anchor_111

Hope this is helpful.
Regards, Dave

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